Expedition Comments

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"In 1995 divers removed the original Edmund Fitzgerald's bell and replaced it with a replica engraved with the names of her lost crewmen. " Why did they go to all that work to engrave the names and make a new bell if no one can see it? If you go by nautical superstition you NEVER remove a bell from a ship because that is "its sole"? They should have put the new bell in the Museam for all to see. I think that they don't want any one to find out why it sunk, I think is a cover up.As far as the remains Why not recover what you can lay them to rest with proper respect as they did with the Civil War submarine crew a few years ago. As far as a reason for the sinking 1. over loaded 2. Roge Wave + 100ft. 3. Drove the bow into the bottom broke in half. Submitted by Richard

I lost my father on the Edmund Fitzgerald. He sailed on the boats for nearly 30 years. The loss of the Fitzgerald & her crew has left deep wounds & scars in many lives. We live in a very advanced technological & electronical age & there have been such wonderful discoveries. I don't want to wonder or worry about the remains of my father. Nor would our family members I would think, want to worry about their father,son, husband, uncle or brother. We all share a common bond, we all lost a loved one on November 10,1975. We have all been left with sorrow & loneliness from the sudden death of him. Our lives have been forever changed. Thirty one years later some of us are still hurting as much as the night the sinking happened. Some may want their loved one brought up to the surface to bury in a cemetery near them. Others feel he is already in his grave & accept that. We have our own thoughts & feelings & each one of us are entitled to them. But that common bond will never be broken. Twenty nine men lost their lives on November 10,1975 on the Edmund Fitzgerald & families will never be the same again. We know the bodies are with the Fitzgerald but I believe that their souls are in the safety of our Heavenly Father's arms. May we find that same peace someday. Submitted by Cheryl

The Kamloops - a ship that wrecked in 1927 and wasn't discovered until the 70's - has a body in it. I've talked personally with divers who have seen it. Yet the Kamloops is open to diving. At a science museum in my home city there are mummified corpses of human beings on display. Humans are fascinated with death. We slow down near a traffic accident, in hopes of seeing a dead or injured person. It's human nature. Because of this, divers will disturb the dead on the Fitzgerald - it's inevitable. The only difference is that there are living relatives of these men, and they don't want these remains disturbed. Nobody knows who the body on the Kamloops is, to say nothing of his relatives. The fact that there's no one around to object gives divers implicit approval to dive and observe/poke at/ filch from it. We must respect the wishes of the family, and leave the wreck alone. Submitted by Pete

While doing research for an article on the Sinking of the Edmund Fitzgerald, I experienced a wide range of emotions.  One of the things that stand out in my mind is that many of the families were totally caught off guard by hearing the news on the radio or television or from a phone call from friends.   Apparently the shipping company didn't feel the need to alert the families of the tragedy.  As far as divers being able to explore the site, that will always remain controversial.  In consideration of the families, it may provide some closure if the bodies were recovered.  As far as the boat itself--if there was any chance that the cause of the sinking could be determined from bringing the boat to the surface and thoroughly inspecting it,  then that might be the thing to do.  However, with all the variables that particular November day -- the hatch question, the Six Fathom Shoal question, the keel question, the possible structural problems, the hurricane force winds, the high waves, the lost radar, etc., it is doubtful that the true cause could be determined.  It is my belief that only God knows what caused the sinking.  I pondered over some of the comments equating divers around the shipwreck with people walking around cemeteries.  The difference is that families placed their loved ones in cemeteries.  With loved ones lost in a shipwreck, the families  never had the change to have a burial service for them.  May God Bless the souls of the 29 crewmen and bring Comfort to their families.  Submitted by Liz     

I've been studying this thing since I was in sixth grade, and I believe they should leave it where it is. It is dishonorable to dig up a grave, so why dig up the ship!? Peace out, and God Bless those that were on the ship. Submitted by Kay

Why in the world would any family member feel at ease by leaving the remains of their loved ones in a wreck?  Should we have left the September 11th destruction lie in a pile filled with poor souls?  Why would the whole mentality of the situation be different under water?  Those men died reaching for the surface but it is for some kind of rediculous patriotic nautical nature they are left below.  Drop the dramatic "no touch" ranting and give those men a proper burial if you have the technologial means.  They at least deserve that.   Submitted by Brett

My father is Oliver J. Champeau-3rd Assistant Engineer aboard the Ftizgerald. Loosing him and putting him to rest is something that I have never been able to do.  I was there when they brought up the Bell and wanted to be there just to see the place were his body lies.  I've attended many Memorial services and continue to do so with my family today.  I've tried to come to a peaceful place with all this, but to know #1 that ships are still out there un seaworthy!  To know that people dive this area (that's suppose to be restricted is a joke!) They can dive to the wreck and they do with no authorization of any kind.   They steal and disturb and rape the  Fitzgerald.  Yes, there are bodies around the ship.  I've seen them.  I wanted my dad brought out of the depts of Lake Superior back in 1975 due to the very thing that conitnues to happen today. They can sell snow globes of a sinking ship at the Martime Museum; they can make beer and write books and movies (now there is a haunted version out on C.D.) While the families struggle on, some can't even afford to go to the Memorial Services offered.    If I could go back I would of done things so differently in regards to that Beautiful Bell that came off that ship, with the sun beaming down upon us. I want to tell my dad how sorry I am that there was nothing I could do to stop these intruders. I am sorry that 31years latter I have failed in retrieving his body, so that swimmers and divers would never disturb his remains.  I am sorry that the ship was sinking before it every left port due to greed.  Leaving him rest and finding peace will never happen for me or my family.  He and the rest of men are resting in the back yard of someone's playground.   They will never stop until there fortune is made.  (that's never ending) Sincerely, Submitted by Debbie

My  father sailed on the great lakes for 20 years out of Rogers city. His 1st year was when the Fitgerald was christend. I remember later in his life hearing the stories of the shipping from port to port and espeacly the night of the november gail, the so called witch of November, the 3 sisters. After hearing those stories I truley  belive the lakes are a resting place for those souls who were lost on the ships that went down in them.  When my Dad passed away his last remaining wish was to be scatterd out in the lakes he loved sailing on . I am againts distubing grave sites. I am a diver in southern florida for Ft.Lauderdale fire and rescue. Recovery is one thing but tresspassing on anothers place of rest is not ok with me, and yes I was born in Michigan /Bay City in March  of 1975 , raised in Traverse City . Submitted by diver Russell

IF I WAS A CREW MEMBER ON THAT SHIP WHEN IT WENT DOWN, I'D WANT EVERYONE TO KNOW EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED NO MATTER WHAT IT TOOK. PEOPLE TALK AS IF THE GHOSTS OF THE LOST ARE STILL DOWN THERE, SLEEPING PEACEFULLY. NO, I WOULD HOPE THEY ARE ALL IN HEAVEN. BUT SAY YOU DONT BELIEVE IN THAT SORT OF THING, IF YOU DIED, WOULD YOU REALLY WANT TO BE STUCK ON THE SHIP THAT KILLED YOU 5OO MILES BELOW THE SURFACE OF A LAKE??? I DONT BELEIVE WE SHOULD JUST HOIST IT UP, BUT I FEEL THAT AFTER AN EXTENSIVE SEARCH FOR HUMAN REMAINS IS DONE, IT SHOULD BE BROUGHT UP AND STUDIED. I'D WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW HOW I DIED. IF REMAINS ARE FOUND, MAYBE THEY CAN BE IDENTIFIED AND RETURNED TO THEIR FAMILIES. MAYBE THERE WAS A DESIGN FLAW THAT IS STILL USED ON SHIPS TODAY, MAYBE THEIR LIVES LOST COULD SAVE THE LIVES OF FUTURE VICTIMS, NOT LIKELY, BUT WHAT IF...... Submitted by Corey

My son is a sailor on an ore freighter that sails the Great Lakes.  If anything were to happen to him like the fallen crew of the Fitzgerald, I would fight tooth and nails for the respect they are do. I say no diving!!  Walking around a cemetary is clearing not the same as diving down where they reported seeing a dead crew member. If any diver just wants to make a buck...the go walk along the freeways and collect cans! Those sailors gave their lives providing a great service. Have some respect for the fallen crew and family members!!! Be respectful and just let it be a memorial. Rest in peace guys!!  You are not forgotton. Submitted by Connie

The problems is that no one wants to be told no. It is like most have said it is no possible to reach without tech. The one's that has a problem with the fact that they can't dive has the problem with being told no, or have other things in mind when they reach the site. Besides, Who is realy going to watching anyway. So if they want to and had the money they could do what the wanted. Who's goint to stop them. If there were someone what would realy happen. It boils down to you can even if you want to so leave it alone. Submitted by Tracy

    I personally believe that the Edmund Fitzgerald sunk becuase of a broken keel.I have a close friend who has dived on the Edmund Fitzgerald and from his log he clearly saw that the cargo hatches we   secure and not broken. I think that when the Edmund Fitzgerald was in the middle of a wave when the keel broke and she sank like a stone. THe only way to prove this is to dredge out the silt from under a part of her and examine the keel. I think that raising her is totally inappropraite considering that the souls of the crew will be distrubed. But I believe that all the crew would want us to know how she sank, so with that in mind, we should do it! Submitted by diver Fred

As a gravesite, I believe that the Edmund Fitzgerald should be respected just like any other site where the dead reside, however; it is rare that someone doesn't die when a ship goes down and most shipwrecks of this size have been explored so I have no problems with penetrating and observing the wreck. Submitted by diver Andy

My husband and I were married in October of 1973 and when we were up at the Straits we went through the locks with the Edmund Fitzgerald...I have a picture of that..I too think if people want to go down and see the ship thats ok but it is a grave site for all those men that parished...everyone should respect those men and their remaining families who moarn their passing. Submitted by Linda

I am, according to my grandmother, related to some of those onboard the Edmond Fitzgerald.  (I now wish I had written down the names of those she mentioned we had relation to, but apparently, there were at least two.)   I applaud Gordon Lightfoot for doing the song.  It keeps the memory -- not only of the Edmond Fitzgerald and all those aboard, but a memory that can be used to guide the future, thus making the lives of those lost NOT in vain.  My grandfather was one of the main construction workers for the largest grain holds in Minnesota/Wisconsin, being Duluth and Superior, respectively, both of which are located at the "point" of Lake Superior (where I was born).  I'd also like to mention that I find the region of the Great Lakes to be a geographically enticing area, beautiful and rare, but obviously, with her dangers, as the Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald portrays. Thus, now having given something of my background on the matter,                                 I submit this on the topic of its salvage and/or recovery: I would either like to see it lay at rest, or, better yet, I would like to see it salvaged specifically for musuem and/or research purposes.  This gives reverence to those on board (apparently, I had 2 cousins on board) and gives their death more meaning, in that we can learn from the wreck.   I'm not into people grabbing stuff up and selling it on their own.  The entire collection (or as much as you can get) provides most of the story, and in this way, gives their deaths meaning, as well as helping us to prevent such tragedy from again occurring. Just my 2 cents. Submitted by Mandy

What is an Archaeoligist , It's a person that studys man. Or a leagle grave robber in the name of studing man . I don't know how u feel about this but I don't think there is any value to study this wreck as all that is & has been learned about this wreck is done. I feel that to enter this wreck is intering a grave ,but to visit the outside would be ok w/look but don't touch.But that won't happen in our days to a normal diver as it is so far outta reach we'll never get the chance to dive it. So what I say to all "stay away".                           Submitted by diver Marc GSM1 Ret.  

As an avid scuba diver I believe the the wreck site should be treated as a gravesite. Any further exploration is really unnecessary. We should respect the wishes of the crews families.  Submitted by diver Mike.

Stay the h*** away from her! Granted a great number of sailors have been lost on the lakes and we all feel the loss, but none have been made into memorial sites like the Fitzgerald, and if there are others stay the h*** away from them too. There are plenty of wrecks out there to keep all of us busy. Let those men rest in peace. Lets not make this a fresh water Titanic and poke, dig and prod around it for the next 100 years. Submitted by diver Keith.

The Fitzgerald was a great ship and a great loss when she and her crew went down. In the interest of preventing another loss it was important to know what happened to the ship. The only way to know this is to visit the wreck, not to disturb the remains but to learn from this tragedy. May the crew of the Edmund Fitzgerald and all the sailors of the seas rest in peace. Submitted by diver Troy.

I don't feel any further exploration of this wreck is necessary due to the fact that this is a gravesite.  I worry when people start talking about making shipwrecks off limits though. As divers I think that we all need to be aware of our rights and make sure we don't allow the government to take away our rights to dive shipwrecks.   Submitted by diver Sheila.

The Edmund Fitzgerald is a shipwreck - period - and should be treated as such. Like other wrecks in the Lakes that have suffered loss of life, the Fitzgerald is not a grave. I firmly believe in the policy of not removing things from the wrecks - and this holds true for the Fitzgerald. In a highly publicized extravaganza, the Fitz's bell was removed from the wreck. Maybe we as scuba divers should also be entreated to plundering and taking souvenirs too from the Lakes wrecks for our own personal self aggrandizement. Submitted by diver Carl.

In response to Carl. Your wrong the Fitzgerald is a grave site, and the ships bell was not plundered, it was brought up to have the names of the crew put on it and then it was returned to the wreck site.  Submitted by diver Keith.

MichiganShipwrecks.com Note -   In 1995 divers removed the original Edmund Fitzgerald's bell and replaced it with a replica engraved with the names of her lost crewmen. The original bell now resides at the Great Lakes Shipwreck Museum at Whitefish Point. Here are two web sites that provide information on the removal and restoration of the bell:  Bell Restoration - Shipwreck Museum

I thought the ship was to deep for divers. but If I could I would love to dive it.  But would not remove or touch anything would treat it as if visiting a family members grave.  Submitted by diver dungnmastr.

While I believe this wreck to have been a tragedy, it is still just a wreck and it is not unique in the fact that people perished on it. I too do not like the idea of a wreck being off limits and believe it should be up to the individual diver to be respectful of any gravesite conditions that may exist upon a wreck. Submitted by diver Woof.

The wreck should be left alone god bless the men that were on the ship.

I'm 12 and I've been studying the Edmund Fitzgerald for about 4 years.  I beleive that it is a gravesite and people persished there so,when divers go down they should respect that by not plundering the wreck or harming it in any way.  People shouldn't make money off it by selling peices of it to people.....that's just plain disrespectful!!

The Edmond Fitzgerald in my mind is one of the most notable wrecks on the Great Lakes and as tragic as it was, as with any shipwreck, there is a good chance of loss of life. If we allow the gov't. or other activists to ban diving on the Fitzgerald; what's to stop them for trying to ban diving on ALL shipwrecks on the Great Lakes? If I had a chance to dive the Fitzgerald I would, but not to see if there are any souviners but to have the opportunity to dive on one of the most notable wrecks of all time and to pay my respects to the men who had lost their lives trying to make a living. Submitted by diver Jack.

I don't see a need to put the wreck off limits, provided it is visited with the same reverence that would befit a visit to a war memorial or any other cemetery.  Besides, at 500 ft. down, the argument is pretty much academic for most divers. Submitted by diver Ed.

Though I am not an extended range diver i do believe that the Fitzgerald should be considered a preserve.  Where as it is a gravesite, we do visit those we have put to rest. I believe that diving on her should be allowed, but nothing should be touched or brought up.  Treat it like when you visit the grave of a close friend or relative. This site would be spectacular to see, and the Fitzgerald's loss has inspired some people.  I say let us dive onto the wreck to inspire, and not to dishonor those that lost there lives. Submitted by diver Kevin.

We can't make cemetery's off limit to pedestrians, neither can we restrict divers from exploring a wreck.  We can only hope that both will be treated with respect.  Submitted by diver Chris.

The Fitz is one of the most known shipwrecks of the century, along with the Titanic, the Empress and the Doria.  The Fitz lies well beyond the depth of recreational scuba and for that fact below the average techy's depth also. I don't see a rash of divers packing up to go visit her. The bell was removed and restored and placed in the Great Lakes Shipwreck Museum at Whitefish point with the knowledge and permission  of the families. I believe most surviving family members would like the site to remain untouched, the sites remoteness and depth will help them with there wish. There are many other shipwrecks at White Fish that resulted in the loss of life, I believe that 29 men were involved on the wreck of the Cowel, of which some perished,  this wreck is frequented by tech divers, are these souls different. The ideas is preservation through visitation not destruction and looting, keep your hands off and no one is offended.  Also, the bell was not returned to the ship, a replica was placed at the wreck site, also inscribed.  Submitted by diver Don.

There seems to be a double standard on shipwrecks like the Fitz.  Divers are banned from diving them, unless they are lucky enough to belong to a professional society like National Geographic.  That is wrong.  The rules for diving and removing artifacts from shipwrecks should apply equally to all.  For even the most experienced technical scuba divers a dive to the Fitz is only going to be a touch and ascend dive anyway given the depth and water temperature.  It should be a legal dive site but artifact removal should not be allowed in my opinion. Submitted by diver Brady.

I think that you should be able to dive it ,but not disturb it at all do take anything.  I'm 14 and have been studying the Great Lakes Ship Wrecks since I was 9 and I find that the Fitz is one of the worst I've ever read about.  Submitted by Ryan.

I believe that it should be left alone, because it is human nature people have to touch.  And there is something to be said about the mystery of the Edmond Fitzgerald.  Submitted by diver Tom.

I wish the Edmund Fitzgerald was still sailing today for two reasons number 1 so I could see it and number 2 so those families didn't lose their family members.  Submitted by Paul.

THE EDMOND FITZGERALD IS A SHIP WRECK. The only thing it should be and remain is A SHIPWRECK- If it dive-able they should dive for educational purposes ONLY.  NOTHING should be brought up. IT IS AND SHALL REMAIN RESPECTED.  -END OF DISCUSSION.  Submitted by Alexandra - 7th Grade Student.

I have studied the wreck of the Fitzgerald for years and its my opinion that it should be left alone we know why she went down and that should be that. Let the men of this noble ship rest in peace.  Submitted by diver Tom.

During the 1960's & '70's I dove on many wrecks in the Great Lakes, especially the Georgian Bay area. The subject of diving on the Fitz is a difficult one because of the emotion involved. I feel that, yes, it is a gravesite but that diving on it should not be banned if certain rules and respect are in place. Such as, no vessel entry, no artifact removal, no human remains disturbed. Look - don't touch. Legislating a wreck ban is just another knee-jerk reaction by the Government. It will never stop the idiots and only penalize responsible divers. Wrecks are living history. Divers should be able to SEE the wrecks but, again, not interfere with them in any way. As already said, it is a diver's way of honoring the ship and the brave men who sailed her.  Submitted by diver William.

The Fitzgerald is a gravesite, so is truk lagoon as is pearl harbor; respect is a privilege not a right! God Bless those who perished on that night. Rest in peace my brothers.  Unknown author.

I'm am very interested in the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald, and hope that one day the truth of how the ship sank is discovered.  Submitted by diver Joseph.

Leave it down there, it is a piece of history that should not be disturbed, ban diving on it, leave it where it is, and don't make a circus of the lives of the men who went down on her.  We don't need to "pay our respects" or "Inspire".  Just leave her alone.  The legend of the good ship Inspires and pays our respects on it's own, we don't need divers for that. Isn't it enough just knowing it's there?  Submitted by Robert.

As a sailor for 9 years, it is simply the respect we owe these men to leave them in the place they loved and made their living.  Submitted by diver Ron.

The pain of the families left remaining is second to none. I have seen the pain of so many people and feel divers must respect the grave site of the fallen sailors, this is not about us but about them. We know about the wreck and can see pictures and read about it, there is no need to disturb these great men who gave everything they had. God Bless them RCMP Officer Roger.

Would I be allowed to walk through a cemetery and dig up graves, simply because they're there, and I can get to them? No. Leave the Fitz alone.  Submitted by Rob.

I think they should allow people to visit the site where the ship went down. It should not be off limits and if people want to make a couple of bucks than okay.  Submitted by diver Kendall. 

Regarding the argument that the wreck is a gravesite and should be left alone, what's the difference between visiting the wreck and visiting a gravesite at the cemetery? Nobody can prevent you from walking around a cemetery and looking at a gravesite of someone you didn't know, so why should a diver be denied a visit to this gravesite? Aren't final resting places, wherever they may be, all the same? If the divers are taking a risk to try to learn something about the victim's final hours, people they probably never even met, how is that a bad thing?  Submitted by Karla.